How Brokeback affected me

[Wolf]

Jack, I've been reading your posts and pegged you as a 'friend' early on  .  glad to hear my post made a connection.

I thank you for your kind words.  I've written a bit, but not professionally, and never as a man  .  I think any empathy I have is a result of 13 years of marriage to an architypally male, male.  I see and feel his struggles, daily.   Just now thinking about what I can do to facilitate him having some 'uncluttered by things female' time and space.  Give him back a bit of his warrior.  Perhaps he needs a fishing trip or two ....... tho preferrably the kind that involves getting his line wet  .

Anyway, better get back to the minutiae of daily life .... the kids are hungry, the laundry needs hanging.  I can do those things sanely today because I know that tomorrow morning I'm going to the Mountain again  .

Cheers. 

[DFWRichNYC]

Hi gang!
I went for my 7th viewing of Brokeback this afternoon.
See, you all have been a bad influence on me!
I get there for the 4 pm showing and the girl tells me "it's broken."
WHAT?  WHAT IS THAT?  BROKEN?  Have ya'll ever gone up to buy your ticket and had them tell you
"it's broken?"
There were about 6 people standing to the side who looked at me and said they were wanting to see it too!
They were calling other small towns nearby to see what times their theaters were showing it.
Then another couple come up behind me and ask for tickets....'it's broken."
I say to the girl, "what? are you serious?"  She says, "yeah, it's broken, won't be fixed until Wednesday."
So I asked her, "can't you get ANOTHER projector?"
She tells me "no" because "this is the movie that is selling the least, so we can't move a projector in there."
I was SO CRUSHED, I can't tell you!  CRUSHED.  I've already seen it 6 times!
ugh!  I went to see 'Freedomland'  Lots of racial unrest, disturbing, stressful.  I needed the calming spirit of see Brokeback.
I was NOT a happy gal !  I mean..."BROKEN?"  Come on!

Then she saw the homophobic teenage projectionist smirk and she knew: it had been the tire iron....

[sagha/Mo]

Wolf, I differ on little point in yr post. Tne one thing I found objectionable about this film (& almost all others) is the outlandish, over the top hollywood beauty of all 4 main characters. It actually contradicts the reality & the emotional truth of the film. Anyone as beautiful as Heath Ledger or Jack Gyllenhaal would be coddled, pampered & swooned over by every single person they encountered. They would not lack for company or food or lodging for more than a flash. We rarely encounter such dazzling beauty in our lives, it happens yes, but not that often. What would the film be like if the actors were everyday normal people we encounter everywhere we go: the girl at the supermarket with poor teeth; the short, plump boy with bad skin who pumps gas at the station who is terribly sweet: your neighbor's nephew with the dirty fingernails and blemishes on his face who is polite and shy and missing teeth or your dentist who is not handsome, but is decent or the terribly handsome man from church with the squeaky voice who adores his little kids... and on & on. Since they each enter into the skin of the character they play so incrediably well, many don't find their beauty outre, as we love the character and suspend our idea of the actor, his life & personality. At each viewing their individual beauty becomes less intrusive to me. Did anybody see that astonishing picture in today's NY Times magazine of Heath Ledger, so much more Ennis than anything by a mile in BBM?

Saturday, I was driving to bring mail to an old friend who is a novelist, with 18 books. He now has adult polio and can't shit--a long story--and is in a nursing facility until a decision is made on what course of action to take.  On the way I was listening to our local public radio, WPXN, when I heard the beginning echoing twangs of "Wings." Golly Miss Molly, was I excited and turned up the volumne & by the middle of the song had to pull over the side of the road & fucking blubber away. My sister has the ability to talk, even tell a story or read over shopping list while she is crying, she is so unself-conscious about tears. I am always amazed at this ability because I crumple and can do nothing. How ridiculous to not be able to drive and cry. Then the DJ played Willie Nelson's Dylan and then Rufus Wainwright before she came on, identifying what she had played & told for 15 or 20 min how she went to see this movie Brokeback Mountain several days before that has grabbed & shaken her and she has played the CD incessently since. She told how her friends that she went with did not like the movie or were indifferent to it. She discussed how it had affected her, like no other movie she had even seen. If I had a cell phone I would have called her, I wanted so much to talk with her, feeling this connection with her, wanting to tell her to check out this forum.

This solipicistic account about not much except to say that on the one hand BBM seems to be slowing, is closing here where I live, yet at the same time the word is traveling abroad all about us--BBM, as each of surely testify & often stated here, is a phenomena.
            --Sagha

[Island_boy]

Then she saw the homophobic teenage projectionist smirk and she knew: it had been the tire iron....

LOL!!! Ohhhhh ..... that's so below the belt! But so good. Hahahaha

[Joetheone]

Yes my partner and I are worried it will close in Erie soon.  WE went Friday, Saturday, Sunday and he wanted to go today again but I have to say I resisted I was just too emotionally upset and more depressed then ever.  So what did we do we drove around the countryside listening to the soundtrack repeatedly singing the songs and so forth.  I wanted to go to the last showing at 10 pm but did not.  I may go tomorrow we just are so worried what will life be like when it is not at the theater.  Yes, we have pre-ordered the DVD but it may not be the same experience.  We cannot get enough of brokeback and the story.  He is a psychologist and he cannot explain it to himself or to me why we are so affected by this movie.  I have read all 186 pages on this thread and a majority of other threads most of them.  One thing that did help was finding this thread earlier about another ending to the story but after reading all 23 chapters this person wrote I still feel depressed.  Yes, as it has been said many times this film inspires us to look way down deep at our emotions and bring up things from our past and examine it.  It also makes us feel the need for change in our lives.  I still have not figured out what to do and am having a hard time even focusing on simple task my house is getting dirtier by the day and I'm neglecting work it is as if I have lost all interest in everything else in my life.  I told my partner today I would like to sell everything and move to a cabin in Maine and just live.  He said he cannot understand what good that would do us both being isolated and so forth and making such a drastic change.  But at this point that is all I can think of doing.  Well, I started out to give you a link to a page someone earlier posted but thought it would help those who don't want to search all 186 pages becasue I cannot remember where it was posted before but here are two addresses for some interesing things people have written.  http://www.fanfiction.net/l/2267/3/0/1/1/0/0/0/0/0/1/[/font]http://www.asstr.org/~Waddie_Greywolf/Tom_main.html

[Brokeback_1]

jpq, re your post 2733...I'm not going to quote it, everybody knows what it said. It was gorgeous, true , insightfull and gorgeous. Thank you

[mountain boy]

...I heard them . . . "Holy Shit, do you believe that?"  "Damn!"  "I ain't never seen nothin' like that before!" We sat back down. I couldn't let go of Billy's arm. Suddenly, somebody said "Y'all shut up. Guard's coming." And it was over.

Next day I asked Billy about the kiss. He joked and said "what kiss?" Then he got real serious and said "I'm glad it happened. You okay?  You still love me?"  Like I said, turns out it was our only kiss, ever. And yes, Billy, I still love you.

Thanks for asking, WDJ.

Paul

Wow. So the other guys had a basically positive reaction? Did they ever give you or Billy a hard time about it later on? Did anybody say hey, good for you? Or did nobody say anything? It's kinda heart-warming that the guys just say "shut up - guard's coming."

Well - off to bed. Tell us more about yourself. Good luck with your search. Talk w/ya later!

[hayek_uk]

Wow, I did enjoy the Baftas last night, my first night back after 10 days away (in Spain), without BBM or access to the internet.

Welcome back, Hayek - you were missed! Where in Spain did you go? Not that it matters - sounds like you were someplace else, along with the rest of us.

I saw it again for the sixth time Saturday afternoon - I have never been prone to tears, but there I sat - as someone noted recently, the tears start earlier in the movie now, and are more intense.

What you say about this experience being a sort of ephiphany and catalyst for positive change - I have been thinking about that myself. This is prompted such introspection, as it has for so many people. You put into words quite beautifully what I would like to be able to achieve. Thank you for doing that.

Thanks for the welcome back - and to DaveinPhilly and Boris and y'all - its nice to be "home".

I saw BBM for the third time last night (with my partner, on his second view). You are right - the tears came earlier this time - pretty much as soon as I saw Jack Twist (perhaps something to do with Jake G.'s thank-you words at the Baftas too), and in that terrifying moment when Ennis heaves and pounds the wall and with his face all contorted in pain he shouts at the passerby. But then the final confrontation, I hardly knew how to listen to it. Jack's angry frustration melting into such loving concern as Ennis collapses, like a man whose inside has been hollowed out. And that terrible way in which Ennis says he has given up everything to be with Jack - his family, his work chances, his peace of mind. And we know it is not enough, can never be enough.

"a sort of epiphany" - yes those are the words, shorn of the psychological jargon -- thank you. And that was another scene I could hardly bare. Ennis sat far off, unmoving, desparately sad and angry as he is told to leave the wonderful world that has opened up for him. He can see no way to keep it, and his fight with the man who has opened the door for him and shown him a new life. Jack, the angel with wings folded underneath him - as Ennis begins his self-destructive decsent from the mountain. Next time angels and rodeo-cowboys collide in Ennis's conversation (at the Thanksgiving meal) he is confronted by an avenger in Alma and he rushes out to submit himself to another beating.

Epiphany. Or Pentecost. Pentecostals are Jack's people, he says, as he and Ennis sit by the camp fire. But Jack doesn't know what Pentecost is -- and instead he describes the Apocalypse, the end of the world, when the good and the bad (the sheep and the goats) will be separated. And soon enough the process begins. A few short weeks later Jack and Ennis are separated and in the old, closed world, Ennis bids a tight-lipped farewell. On the Charlie Rose interview with Heath L., Rose showed this clip and began to describe it: "and that's the beginning" -- but Heath L. interrupted him and finished the sentence -- "the end."

[sagha/Mo]

Dear Mejack,
Paul, your story stunned me in its beauty and is deeply touching. You tell yr story well. You broke my heart. It brought to mind Borstal Boy, not in the details of your story but its broad brush. Brendan Behan tells us of his incarceration as a boy is an English reformatory at about your same age entering prison. He tells also the tender story of how he met his great friend there, as did all the boys who paired & certainly they all did. His China who protected, taught him the ropes and loved him. In the Borstal Reformatory the boys referred to their best friend as "My China"  China was used & came to these boys handed down in an obscur legacy from decades of previously imprisoned boys' friendships that by then its origens forgotten.

Behan tells us that it came about because this friendship for each boy was the immense singular reality of their lives in prison, larger than Ireland, larger than any other country of their heart. Their friendship was more vast than the real China, which they heard was big, but even more unchartered, foreign, unknowable and exotic to them was this overwhelming feeling of their friendship that brought them such comfort and love. It was a country that no English guard could enter, let alone ever rule as they did the pitiful, used, tawdry terrritory of their nowhere prison filled with Irish Republican scum. 

Thanks so very much for telling us yr story, I felt very privelged to have read it. I wanted to write you offline, but sigh there was no email listed for you in yr profile.

I too had a friend named Billy whom I met at close to the same age as you met yours, with a story that would be just as central to my life as your Billy was to yours, just as determining, replete with rapacious regret and bittersweet memory of love, a love that scared & bewildered me. It was under very different circumstances than yours, with a very different ending except for the loss and haunted heart whose memory infuses everything. (But sorrows'springs are all the same, whatever the names.) I too see Billy as young, with dark hair, his face thin, head tilted with his shy & sweet smile. Like you, BBM broke out a depth of emotion enclosed about Billy I had kept to myself nearly every day, that has so shaken me & even now tears well in my eyes & throat constricts. I feel as bereft & as sad as if it was yesterday we were together.  --sagha

[liketoday]

Hi gang!
I went for my 7th viewing of Brokeback this afternoon.
See, you all have been a bad influence on me!
I get there for the 4 pm showing and the girl tells me "it's broken."
WHAT?  WHAT IS THAT?  BROKEN?  Have ya'll ever gone up to buy your ticket and had them tell you
"it's broken?"
There were about 6 people standing to the side who looked at me and said they were wanting to see it too!
They were calling other small towns nearby to see what times their theaters were showing it.
Then another couple come up behind me and ask for tickets....'it's broken."
I say to the girl, "what? are you serious?"  She says, "yeah, it's broken, won't be fixed until Wednesday."
So I asked her, "can't you get ANOTHER projector?"
She tells me "no" because "this is the movie that is selling the least, so we can't move a projector in there."
I was SO CRUSHED, I can't tell you!  CRUSHED.  I've already seen it 6 times!
ugh!  I went to see 'Freedomland'  Lots of racial unrest, disturbing, stressful.  I needed the calming spirit of see Brokeback.
I was NOT a happy gal !  I mean..."BROKEN?"  Come on!

Then she saw the homophobic teenage projectionist smirk and she knew: it had been the tire iron....

DFWRichNYC,

You've made me laugh out loud!  Thanks!!

[liketoday]

...when I feel that hungry restlessness within my heart, I am also on my guard. Hungry restlessness is the norm in adolescent life, when even the law of gravity seems to be suspended, but it becomes an aching pain later on when one begins to discover that there does not seem to be anything “out there” to truly satisfy it. Yes, there are indeed exceptions to the rule, true lovers who find themselves in finding each other and who bond together for a life-time of deeply satisfying commitment. But how many such people are there out there? And going even farther, how many such people can there be out there?

People are attracted to one another because of a very powerful fit between certain facets of their respective personalities, but in most cases, the other facets of their personalities --- along with the social baggage that comes with them --- muck up the stream and, in many cases, dam the river dry in the end. Ennis and Jack, who are perhaps the truest lovers on the American screen at the present time, have hardly a complete relationship: indeed, there is an indication --- at least to me --- that their final confrontation by the river bank indicates that, if Jack had not died, he might have ended up breaking off the relationship with Ennis. And ultimately, in any case, all that is left of the relationship in the end is a set of bitter-sweet memories in the surviving partner, hardly an outcome that guarantees happiness for him during the rest of his life.

I think that we have to remember that Brokeback Mountain is, fundamentally, a tragedy... and that the reason why it resonates so strongly, not merely with gay people but also with straight people as well, is because it reminds us that life is, basically, tragic. Seeing Brokeback Mountain makes us committed to re-examining our lives, to reconsidering life-choices that may have been made too quickly and too easily, and to taking another chance on life on the rare occasion when the “restless, hungry heart” --- which has such wisdom in such matters --- gives us the green light to take that chance. But all of these considerations occur, must occur, within a fundamental awareness of the inherently tragic nature of life.

Indeed, it is the inherently tragic nature of life that makes its delights all the sweeter for being so few, so fleeting, and so bittersweet. Maybe, in the end, all that we have, can have, is Brokeback Mountain. We may want more; we may strive for more; but maybe that is all we can get. And yet even that little is infinitely better than nothing at all, a lesson which is perhaps the greatest of all the lessons that we learn from this magnificent film.

That's such a beautifully written post.  I agree wholeheartedly with all that you've expressed. 

All I want to add is that my own feeling is that what matters in life is the 'means' rather than the 'end' in itself...  we may want more, and strive for more, than Brokeback Mountain, yet never achieve it... but so?  For me, I'd rather die knowing that I've tried my utmost to offer someone the purest love I'm capable of giving.   Even if I've failed to achieve that, I'll die happy.  No regrets.  And if I haven't been striving every step along the way, I'll know I'll never find it!

You think there may be nothing more than that mountain, an isolated and beautiful place whose magic is founded upon the fact that its an 'escape' from the bitterness of the rest of the world... and maybe you're right.  But I've seen something better than Brokeback Mountain in real life, so I'm holding onto hope.

For several years I've taken great comfort from my best friend, a heterosexual woman, who is the most wonderful person that I've ever known.  We've been friends since 1993, and if I hadn't been gay we'd both be married right now... or I'd have gone crazy trying to make her love me.   She is blissfully happy with a great guy, and they've been together for 8 years.  They're the only people that I know who have a relationship that I respect and aspire to.  They're not married - both reject the social pressure to 'normalise' their relationship.  They're both monogomous, not because it's expected by society or by one another, but because after 8 years they're so passionate about one another that neither is remotely attracted to anyone else.  They're completely different characters, in terms of such identifiers as musical tastes, social interests and professions, yet have profound respect for one another's 'passion' for these things, and without making it seem like 'effort' they've made time to share their partners interests, broaden the horizons of their own tastes... all the while remaining true to their own personal interests.  What they have in common is an outlook on life... living in the moment, respecting people around them, trying to help others, never becoming complacent or taking for granted the good things in life. (all unspoken) 

There is no hidden 'trouble' in this relationship... if there were, I'd be one of the few in the world to know!   I can't express the joy it gives me to see her so blissfully happy... because I love her... but it also gives me such encouragement, because I believe there are people out there, rare enough and special enough, to understand what it means to love... not 'love' in some romantic movie notion of the word, but love that is more about giving care and support and respect to another than any kind of intoxicating feel-good-about-myself sexualised emotion.... love that keeps all other emotions, self-respect, and respect for life itself, alive and kicking... within every aspect of their day to day life, despite the strains of everyday living. 

I feel I'm not doing justice to their relationship by attempting to describe it... in fact, they probably sound quite irritating as I've described them, but I defy anyone who has met them not to fall in love, to be intoxicated by the energy they radiate... not just towards one another, but towards those gathered around.  They're happy, effortlessly happy... by that I mean it comes naturally to them both now (they invest time and energy of course, but willingly... enjoying that process, so its not a chore!)  In our circle of friends and acquaintances, I know I'm not alone for secretly (well, not so secret in my case!) admiring them, even just wanting to be around them sometimes... because its life affirming to be in their presence; every time I am with them I'm amazed by what they've got... and  if I hadn't known them, I'd have concluded that the kind of relationship I strive for myself was illusory.   

As it stands, I won't settle for anything less.

[Wolf]

Sagha,

It's interesting what you say about Heath looking more like Ennis than Heath.  Can quite imagine Ennis is not a character he's going to be able to easily walk away from. 

Regards the 'four hollywood beauties', yr absolutely right of course.  They are all beautiful.  For me tho, the impact of that fact was only peripherally felt, and only up until the point that the power of the film swept away such inconsequentials.  The purity of the love between these two innocent (and they truly were innocents, in an innocent place) boys transcended, for me at least, the physical. 

Incidentally, I'm inclined to think that there is NO ONE in hollywood, or anywhere else for that matter, who could have done what those two did in bring Ennis and Jack to life.   Possibly the same applies to the two women.  Cannot for the life of me, imagine Julia Roberts and Gwyneth Paltrow as Alma and Lureen.  Doh!, now I've gone and put that deeply distressing visual into my bonce and can't get it out  .  Don't try this at home.  Don't sit around imagining Brad Pitt and Jude Law as Ennis and Jack .... please.

Upshot, despite the fact that all four are pretty, I don't think Ang Lee really had any choice in the matter.  Ipso facto, he simply HAD to use them.  They put butts on seats in the first instance, but gave us transcendence once we were there.  All good.

To whoever it was who had to pull over and have a good cry when 'wings' came on the radio - yr in good company! I've been driving around blubbering (women really can cry and drive at the same time  ) just THINKING about 'wings' ....... oi vay.

It's 9pm here ..... only 11 hrs til I go back to the Mountain.  Taking my neighbour - a vaguely homophobic divorced woman who stated firmly a week ago that she'd never see 'that film'.  It's a small victory for the light side that she's coming along.   I'm confident she'll be floored by it.  She has a good heart, just not enuf of the right sort of exposure.  Wish us luck!

W

[hayek_uk]

Regards the 'four hollywood beauties', yr absolutely right of course.  They are all beautiful.  For me tho, the impact of that fact was only peripherally felt, and only up until the point that the power of the film swept away such inconsequentials.  The purity of the love between these two innocent (and they truly were innocents, in an innocent place) boys transcended, for me at least, the physical. 

They seem to me most beautiful when suffuced with feeling, when they are expressive of emotion (in Ennis's case, deeply repressed and denied emotion). That's true in the film, and in real life (I thought Jake G. at the Baftas was most handsome when most awkward). The "studio" and "agents" photo releases are lifeless and not specially attractive - just like the "pinups" (Pitt, Fraser, Cruise et al) who never manage much emotion.

[alma]

You know, when I first heard that Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal were the leads in this movie, I thought, "When did they grow up?" I was used to thinking of them as "young actors" who played roles that were "in training" for the future when they'd be big.

It was something of a shock to think that they were going to "hold this movie down" without some bigger name over them (I suppose one could argue that is why Randy Quaid is in the movie... but not enough to actually be of consequence, really).

I have loved Jake since "October Sky" and my daughter is a fanatic for "Donnie Darko." So it really thrilled me to think of Jake being in a "grown up role." Heath Ledger is a darling, but I wasn't sure if the glimpse of greatness we saw in "The Patriot" was a flash in the pan or evidence of something deeper. I'm so glad it was the latter!

So these two weren't "big names" as in A list, but there was definitely buzz enough about them to make movie goers like me interested in the film for them alone. The subject matter and Ang Lee sealed the deal. I have been an Ang fan for years. What made Heath and Jake literally lift off the screen was the directing. In someone else's hands, their careers might have been cheapened by this film. Instead, they are immortalized.

It is so refreshing to have handsome, quality actors to follow rather than the usual round up of pin up boys who barely have to act while they shoot people in the head.... or screw pretty girls.

[Biker Named Lumpy]

My stats: This is my first post in this forum and I saw Brokeback Mountain for the first time at a matinee in Phoenix this past Sunday. I'm male, 51, and single and live in a small town in the mountains of Arizona. My lifelong sexual "status" has been "questioning whether I am gay or straight or bi". I've always found
the same feelings for and the same fulfillment with either sex. At times I've said to myself that "maybe right now I'm leaning toward men" and have often said to myself "right now I'm leaning toward women" but truly I've always considered what I am sexually to be just who I am and a non-issue as much as one can let it be a non-issue in today's many social settings.

You might jump to the conclusion that I'm a Gemini if you know something about astrology: unable to commit to ANYTHING. That isn't the case though.  I've been committed to my friends all my life, male and female, and committed to trying to be one of the good guys on the planet. I've been more about how I live my life than who I live it with.

This wasn't the case when I was a teenager though. When I was young I latched onto obsessions over several individuals that I had especially good chemistry with, some male and some female. Most of my friends were probably seen as hippie types although none used drugs much. A couple used marijuana a little.  A couple used it a lot. But my friends and I were more about discussing social ideals and having fun in the outdoors than we were about partying and getting smashed. We were more likely to have dinner parties than drinking parties and the best times were spent exploring nature and camping and hiking and just driving all weekend with no destination in mind.  Unrequieted loves were a big part of the whole experience, though.

The greatest pains I experienced growing up were due to emotional involvements with close male friends. I found it fairly easy to be open about my own bisexuality around my friends because I was around people that were politically and emotionally somewhat evolved I guess. But it was a rare instance when a male friend would find himself able to relate to me on a sexual level more than once and I was the type of young man that if I felt a close bond with you my feelings for you could very easily include the sexual feelings. I was a very sexual being back then.

Not so much now.  I'm old now and I've lived through the HIV era and my decisions have been effected by (like everyone else) the fears of HIV.

Thats enough about me for now. I just wanted to say that I would echo those that have posted about the movie saying that its really a movie about losing our youth and our innocence. And, the world around us tries to make everything black and white while emotions and feelings and expressions of those are not so black and white.  I would like to think that more and more people are learning that racism and sexism and all forms of repression are the result of people having little backbone as individuals. Those who hate who they perceive themselves to be (way deep inside themselves) are the most likely to express disdain for those that are different from them. You can almost read between the lines and hear certain people saying "Well I'm as low a creature as there is, but at least I'm not as low as HIM" while pointing a finger at whoever.

The film for me is about the tragedies of our lives that are a result of repressed (good and postive) feelings and confused ideas about right and wrong.

Two men alone in a beautiful mountain setting with time on their hands and really nothing to do but just enjoy each other's company: well, that sounds like heaven to me.  How many of us get that
opportunity really.  The mundane chores of living leave us little time to be the free-spirited individuals we long to be.

I think first and foremost everyone that sees this film that can get past their own confusion about same sex relationships will see a film showing them exactly what is missing from their lives. How often are we really free to let ourselves go and have fun with another individual where we don't feel like the world is watching and sizing up what we're doing?  We know what it takes to feel connected to the people we'd like to love and enjoy on the level that Jack and Ennis displayed in the film, but how often do we put ourselves in a position where it can happen.  Most of us just don't find much time in our lives for it.

I think I need a fishing trip. 


This is a great forum.  Keep it going.


Lumpy in Central Arizona