Will Brokeback rock the culture like Ellen?

[BillN]

In terms of "rocking the culture?"

The specific subject being discussed was "the most important work of gay-themed art ever."
 
I don't really consider Plato, Proust, and Caravaggio to be in the running for this, because there are too many historical ramifications involved in calling what they did "gay art." Remember, "gay" anything is a relatively recent concept.

Angels in America is definitely gay art, and yes, it rocked the culture. (Much more so than Ellen, in my homosexual opinion.) It remains to be seen whether BBM will rock it any more--but I hope it does!   

BBM isn't gay art to me, it is a universal story that happens to have two men in love as the central characters. IMO, BBM will have a much greater impact because it will be seen by more people and the story can be embraced by more people.

[sparky]

How does this sound?...

"Brokeback Mountain" is the most important gay-themed work of art EVER.

Whaddya think?  Is that going overboard? 

As far as the film goes, it has certainly impacted me more than any other film or televison show I have seen. And I think I have
seen them all. Most important is a question we can only answer, I think, after a certain amount of time has passed. It sure is having an impact on people, and I think has already shown that it is having an enormous influence on the lives of many who have seen it. This forum alone is proof of that.
For years, I have felt as if I were being tossed table scraps with all of the gay themed films, and to a degree, the TV shows as well. I will give a lot of credit to Six Feet Under for their matter of fact treatment of gay characters. That show was of such a high caliber in all aspect, that it is a different animal altogether.
I, for one, couldn't make it through Angels In America. But I know many people loved it. I felt like they were hitting me in the face with a political club. I understood the point, but it was Larry Kramer-esque in it's preachy and didactic tone. I sure didn't care about the characters very much, and that is the soul of a story right there.
For my money, this is the most important gay themed film I have ever seen. In time, we will see how it holds up.

[sotoalf]

I dislike the phrase "gay art," as much as I do "feminist art" or "gender studies." It reeks of politics, which dates faster than mutton chops and bolo ties.

[Timothy]

"Brokeback Mountain" is the most important gay-themed work of art EVER.

Whaddya think?  Is that going overboard?

Maybe, maybe not if we include literature.  Without deciding which is MOST important, the following gay-themed works of art are important:

Other Voices, Other Rooms by Truman Capote - a very early gay-themed bestseller (though it was suggested rather than stated)
Maurice, book by E.M. Forster, movie by Merchant/Ivory - Prestige author, prestige producers
David by Michaelangelo - decidedly and unapologetically homoerotic
Laramie Project, (sorry forgot by whom) - presented all across the country by high school drama productions, often protested by Fred Phelps' family which raises attention and gets support from unusual places (churches, local government, civic groups)
Best Little Boy in the World, by John Reid (pseudonym for Andrew Tobias) - influenced a generation of gay people to realize that gays were also in the top of education and industry

It's hard to say what is "the most important" because so much builds on other works.  Brokeback could never have been made if Birdcage and In & Out were not commercially successful.  And Ledger and Gyllenhaal would never have been comfortable taking these rolls if there had not been a Tom Hanks or Antonio Banderas taking gay roles before them.  The viewing public would never have been ready to recognize and accept that gay men could truly love each other if they had not gotten used to gay men first in the clown roles of Will & Grace.  Without all the things that came before, Brokeback could not be what it is.

Having said all that, BBM may be the most important gay themed piece of art of the decade or maybe even of our generation.  It all depends on whether the impact has legs.  If audience flock to the theater and then go out and pass constitutional amendments, we may be overestimating its importance.

We really won't know with any certainty for years.

[BillN]

"Brokeback Mountain" is the most important gay-themed work of art EVER.

Having said all that, BBM may be the most important gay themed piece of art of the decade or maybe even of our generation.  It all depends on whether the impact has legs.  If audience flock to the theater and then go out and pass constitutional amendments, we may be overestimating its importance.

We really won't know with any certainty for years.

Timothy, agree that we might not know for some time, but I also think we can start to see the possibilities. And possibilities are something we didn't have at all not that long ago. And I think it goes beyond a gay theme because the story is universal, not just gay. As a gay person, I'd like to claim Brokeback as my own, but that wouldn't be right, it would be selfish. The more we can share what Brokeback contains, the more people will come to understand that tolerance is a good thing.

[Luckie Starchild]

I don't think saying that BBM has a gay theme is a political statement.  Nor do I think it suggests that the movie only appeals to gay people.

[Rodney]

It seems like GLBT history is divided into pre- and post-Stonewall.  I honestly believe that Brokeback is another milestone.  Stonewall helped GLBT individuals find our anger, and our outrage. We began to show the world that we could fight for honesty and truth.  In reading these pages it's clear that Brokeback is helping the GLBT community find our pain, our vulnerability, and our sensitivity.  Now it's time to show the world about our capacity to love. 

The most powerful force we have as human beings is the ability to be open and honest and loving toward ourselves, our community, and our world - including our straight friends that stick up for us and homophobes that condemn us.  If this story/movie can help us tap into that power, then it's our responsibility to find the courage to show it to the world in the smallest and largest of ways.  Some people write books and make movies and speeches, and some people just take the chance to mention the words "my partner" or "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" to a stranger or acquaintance, even if we're not sure how they will react.   And if we act out of love we won't be spared pain, but we will be spared the pain of dishonesty and fear, something Ennis can teach us volumes about.

[MellorSJ]

It seems like GLBT history is divided into pre- and post-Stonewall.  I honestly believe that Brokeback is another milestone.  Stonewall helped GLBT individuals find our anger, and our outrage. We began to show the world that we could fight for honesty and truth.  In reading these pages it's clear that Brokeback is helping the GLBT community find our pain, our vulnerability, and our sensitivity.  Now it's time to show the world about our capacity to love. 

It usually takes a generation for these things to work their way through.  My younger friends (20's and 30's) just accept gays.  Their attitude is "So?"    What they can't believe is my history of hiding!

I read the Yahoo reviews, just to keep tabs on where people's heads are (or maybe residual internalized homophobia ), and there are a good number of reviews that basically say "Why didn't they just get that ranch?"  They simply cannot fathom the depth of Ennis' fear.

I note also that, as far as I can tell, many of us here are older (40's and 50's).  Many of us have lived that fear.  We know what it is.

So yes, I think there is a generational change here.  And I think this film, which does not infantalize us, make us out to be predators (take that! Gene), disease carriers, blah blah, may mark that change.  Either this one, or the next film in which gay-bashing does not feature.

But I gotta tell ya, there are some real sickos over there on Yahoo

[mountain boy]

But I gotta tell ya, there are some real sickos over there on Yahoo

It's heartening to see that at least they are mostly recognized as such. If you sort the reviews by "most helpful," the most helpful reviews are overwhelmingly positive!

[jack]

It seems like GLBT history is divided into pre- and post-Stonewall.  I honestly believe that Brokeback is another milestone.  Stonewall helped GLBT individuals find our anger, and our outrage. We began to show the world that we could fight for honesty and truth.  In reading these pages it's clear that Brokeback is helping the GLBT community find our pain, our vulnerability, and our sensitivity.  Now it's time to show the world about our capacity to love. 

The most powerful force we have as human beings is the ability to be open and honest and loving toward ourselves, our community, and our world - including our straight friends that stick up for us and homophobes that condemn us.  If this story/movie can help us tap into that power, then it's our responsibility to find the courage to show it to the world in the smallest and largest of ways.  Some people write books and make movies and speeches, and some people just take the chance to mention the words "my partner" or "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" to a stranger or acquaintance, even if we're not sure how they will react.   And if we act out of love we won't be spared pain, but we will be spared the pain of dishonesty and fear, something Ennis can teach us volumes about.

damn good first post, rodney.  welcome to the neighborhood.  have a look around, come on in, and set a spell.

[clcny1]

I pulled this off  AOL, a beautiful,touching review...dont know if this in the right thread, but, if this is any indication.....


Life-changing...

"As a straight and very devout Christian man from a small Texas town and fairly close-minded, the only reason I stepped foot into that theatre was to satisfy my wife (she was mad at me, so she thought this would "punish" me...as did I. Plus she really wanted to see it because she has a couple gay friends). Boy were we both wrong! I don't know any gay people, so I thought the whole gay thing was about sex (ignorant, I know). I never looked at it as an incredibly intense, emotionally-involved relationship such as the one portrayed in this movie. It was such a sad, sad thing to see these two young men struggle to combat feelings and emotions that they had no control over simply because of others' ignorance. It really got me thinking. My son is only four years old, but if he grows up to be gay, I'm going to support him 100%. After watching this I realized that if gay people could "change" they would--why would people choose to live a life where they can't be themselves so they end up miserable and alone? For anyone who is gay, I am so sorry that you have to go through this, but know this: there is hope. I am a changed person thanks to this movie, and I know that in time, millions more will turn from ignorance and allow themselves to face the truth."

 

[Rebel]

This from AOL almost seems too good to be true, but hey, I'll take it.

[ozwitch]

Dave suggested I post this as it is not , unfortunately, available online. Sorry for the length of the article, but now it's in a thread it can be linked to.

This is from Adam Elliott, the film-maker who won the Oscar in 2004 for the animated short Harvie Krumpet. He wrote an op-ed piece in my local paper The Herald Sun Melbourne today (12 January.)

It was disheartening to learn that the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has given Brokeback Mountain, starring our own Heath Ledger, an “O” rating for morally offensive. Also disappointing was that the management at the Jordan Commons MegaPlex in Mornon-dominated Salt Lake City, Utah, cancelled all screenings of the movie. The cinema’s owner learned of its plot a few hours before the film was to start its run there.

Homophobia is, of course, alive and thriving. What a shame the locals in the Jordan Commons can’t go and see this wonderful film, as many Melburnians did at its Australian premiere this week. Yes, its two lead characters are gay, but forgetting this for a moment, it is a beautiful piece of cinema that we can all be nourished by, and perhaps even learn something from.

As a member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, I am presently considering my vote in all the Oscar categories. I’ve seen Brokeback Mountain twice and agree with critics that it will be hard to beat in many categories. The film does contain a few love scenes and, for some, watching such moments on the big screen can be a squeamish event. From memory, watching Liza Minnelli and Dudley Moore canoodle in Arthur was quite high on my ‘repulsometer.’ In 1930, the briefest screen kiss by a heterosexual couple was considered extremely risque and taboo. Now it’s as common as sushi.

Brokeback Mountain might be considered groundbreaking for the moment, but hopefully in a few short years, films like it will barely raise an eyebrow. I suppose all the controversy stems from fear. When somebody displays homophobia, they insult a tenth of the population. We are everywhere, a part of every country and every race. We are your school teachers, doctors, dentists, brothers, sisters, aunties and uncles.

We have been around for thousands of years, and are not going away. We experience love in the same capacities heterosexual people do and are tired of being discriminated against. Not all of us are interested in redecorating your homes or styling your hair.
We are quite often truck drivers, brickies, plumbers, sportsmen, cowboys and farmers. We can be creative, but there are some of us who have less dress sense than Sir Les Patterson.
Most of us don’t wear rainbow hot pants, we’re not all witty, not all of us walk in pride marches. We just want the same civil rights as everyone else under the law and to have our relationships acknowledged. We are wonderful fathers and mothers, and we definitely are not interested in molesting your children or twisting their minds. Our sexual orientation is as ingrained as our eye-colour.
And as Annie Proulx, the author of Brokeback Mountain displays in her novel, and how Ang Lee directs beautifully, the two lead characters demonstrate that their sexuality has never been a choice.

It is genetic and as permanent as their arms and legs, despite their own denials. Despite people’s fears and the bullying hypocrisy of macho societies like that shown in Brokeback Mountain, things are changing. Since Harvie Krumpet won the Oscar, I have been so delighted at the positive response I have had to my acceptance speech when I thanked my boyfriend Dan, in front of a billion people. I never intended to be political nor considered myself brave: I didn’t even think twice before saying it.
He is the person I am in love with, the person who supported me, the person I want to be with for the rest of my life. I felt weird using the term ‘boyfriend,’ but ‘partner’ seemed too ambiguous. I would have liked to use ‘husband’ but unfortunately Mr. Howard has made that illegal for now.
Some countries, including Australia, are slowly realising that a marriage between same sex couples will not send our societies crumbling to the ground. It will seem strange at first, but over time will become as familiar as pesto.

Governments in recent years have been amending their laws (to varying degrees), to give the go-ahead for same sex unions, and those that haven’t, are at least debating the subject. Australia needs to grow up and follow suit. Let’s put aside religious prejudice for the moment, subdue the hysteria, treat each other with respect, and remember that sex and sexuality aren’t as scary as you might think.

Go and see Brokeback Mountain, be entertained, be educated, close your eyes at the gooey bits if you wish, but keep your mind open. You might learn something about yourself.

Adam Elliott is a film-maker who won an Oscar in 2004 for his short animated work Harvie Krumpet.

Melbourne Herald Sun, Thursday January 12, 2005.

[/size]

There was a double-page spread on Heath and Brokeback in the paper too, so nice coverage today. I think this is a fine article and well-written. And at least we know how one Academy member is going to vote.

[BillN]

I pulled this off  AOL, a beautiful,touching review...dont know if this in the right thread, but, if this is any indication.....


Life-changing...

"As a straight and very devout Christian man from a small Texas town and fairly close-minded, the only reason I stepped foot into that theatre was to satisfy my wife (she was mad at me, so she thought this would "punish" me...as did I. Plus she really wanted to see it because she has a couple gay friends). Boy were we both wrong! I don't know any gay people, so I thought the whole gay thing was about sex (ignorant, I know). I never looked at it as an incredibly intense, emotionally-involved relationship such as the one portrayed in this movie. It was such a sad, sad thing to see these two young men struggle to combat feelings and emotions that they had no control over simply because of others' ignorance. It really got me thinking. My son is only four years old, but if he grows up to be gay, I'm going to support him 100%. After watching this I realized that if gay people could "change" they would--why would people choose to live a life where they can't be themselves so they end up miserable and alone? For anyone who is gay, I am so sorry that you have to go through this, but know this: there is hope. I am a changed person thanks to this movie, and I know that in time, millions more will turn from ignorance and allow themselves to face the truth."
 

Clcny1, thank you for your post in telling us how you looked at the movie going in and then after. I congradulate you on having the internal honesty to see the movie for what it is and then understand how the story reflects what so many others have gone through. I hope you are right in saying that millions more will turn from ignorance, what a positive impact that would be.

[clcny1]

Sorry BillN if I wasnt clear. It wasnt MY reaction but a reaction of a viewer from the AOL site. I felt it was a really important and honest review that this man gave for the film and I wanted to share it.
BBM will change attitudes and here's a start.